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Post by asatokagesu on Mar 8, 2009 10:14:19 GMT -5
"In the scheme of things, I know only that there is something that orchestrates all from his perch in heaven. The specifics don't matter. If it calms your soul to consider the countless Kami as our directors, then so be it. If you think the Buddha and the Deva are leading by their example, I acknowledge that it may be possible. And if you think that the God of Christians and his aspect Saints guide and shape our every action, then I will accept that view. Until one actually makes it to heaven, and can return amongst the living to recount their experiences, I don't think we can know though."
Asato took another cup, this time the red tea.
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Post by sparkingac195 on Mar 8, 2009 10:31:20 GMT -5
"In the scheme of things, I know only that there is something that orchestrates all from his perch in heaven. The specifics don't matter. If it calms your soul to consider the countless Kami as our directors, then so be it. If you think the Buddha and the Deva are leading by their example, I acknowledge that it may be possible. And if you think that the God of Christians and his aspect Saints guide and shape our every action, then I will accept that view. Until one actually makes it to heaven, and can return amongst the living to recount their experiences, I don't think we can know though." Asato took another cup, this time the red tea. OOC: There is Red Tea? Hasshi, pouring himself a new cup of the Green Tea; spoke: 'i believe that nothing, be it Kami or Buddha, guides heaven, but rather Heaven guides people to believe in false Kamis and Buddhas, can you accept that view Asato-san?'
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Post by asatokagesu on Mar 8, 2009 10:53:06 GMT -5
[OOC: Yes, there is red, black, green, yellow, white...all a matter of how its brewed and stored. That said, when it comes to red/black, its very minor and largely a matter of what name you prefer - though apparantly there are differences at times depending on the variety of the tea itself]
"It's just as likely as any other belief. But then what is it do you believe in?" Asato was now quite curious as to what his answer might be.
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Post by sparkingac195 on Mar 8, 2009 11:00:10 GMT -5
[OOC: Yes, there is red, black, green, yellow, white...all a matter of how its brewed and stored. That said, when it comes to red/black, its very minor and largely a matter of what name you prefer - though apparantly there are differences at times depending on the variety of the tea itself] "It's just as likely as any other belief. But then what is it do you believe in?" Asato was now quite curious as to what his answer might be. OOC: i meant in Sengoku Japan, wasn't fermented tea (save Wulong) a European thing? *Hasshi, seeing his chance, smiled and answered Asato's question* 'I do not follow any particular system or style, but rather base my life on the teachings of the great sages, Lao Tzu and Mengzi in particular, while using my own experiences and theories to form my own opinion. In other words, i take what i like from Taoism, while rejecting what i don't like in the teachings of Mengzi and Confucius, creating a sort of blend between the two which suits me, wouldn't you agree this is much more flexible then simply following all the teachings of Buddha or blind faith in Ancestors or Kami?'
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Post by asatokagesu on Mar 8, 2009 11:37:02 GMT -5
[OOC: Also a rather old Chinese thing. They just became very popular in Europe. Or so said the folks at Laoshi Teahouse in Beijing when I was there. And the Prince's Palace at Xi'an at a tea tasting there assured us that all manner of teas have been brewed since at least the 11th Century over there.]
"Which is exactly why I simply study and examine, and do not subscribe."
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Post by sparkingac195 on Mar 8, 2009 11:41:45 GMT -5
[OOC: Also a rather old Chinese thing. They just became very popular in Europe. Or so said the folks at Laoshi Teahouse in Beijing when I was there. And the Prince's Palace at Xi'an at a tea tasting there assured us that all manner of teas have been brewed since at least the 11th Century over there.] "Which is exactly why I simply study and examine, and do not subscribe." OOC: Pfft, what do Beijing and Xian know about Tea compared to Hangzhou, the Cha Capital of the World. 'So then, if the two of us follow the same philosophy in finding truth, let me ask you what truth you find in the ridiculous ways of the Kami-Worshippers and teachings of Buddha?'
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Post by scholar on Mar 8, 2009 12:28:15 GMT -5
Suehiro was quietly deliberating things in his mind as the exchange went forth. But he took sharp notice to Hasshi calling the ways of Buddha and Shinto as ridiculous.
'Excuse me Hasshi, but what is ridiculous about following the ways of Buddha or following Shinto? many do not follow blindly down the path to enlightenment but take the slow path by which there is many things to be done.
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Post by finchy on Mar 8, 2009 15:30:48 GMT -5
Oukan Saku followed by his close friend Yuki walks in to the tea room. He heard some raised voices in the back room and decided that one of the Room's famous debates was unfolding. Being Saku and with his great love of arguing he smiled apologetically at Yuki who he knew hated debates and walked in to the back room. He saw that four men were sitting round a table and spoke.
"Hello, my friends. My name is Oukan Saku and this is my companion Yuki and I was wondering if you would mind two more joining in your discussion?"
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Post by scholar on Mar 8, 2009 17:35:33 GMT -5
Suehiro immediately stood up and bowed towards the two men.
"Of course gentlemen, please have a seat"
Suehiro gestured for the two men to sit with the group.
"If this keeps up we might need a bigger table"
Suehiro chuckled a bit before taking a sip of tea.
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Post by sparkingac195 on Mar 8, 2009 21:41:05 GMT -5
Oukan Saku followed by his close friend Yuki walks in to the tea room. He heard some raised voices in the back room and decided that one of the Room's famous debates was unfolding. Being Saku and with his great love of arguing he smiled apologetically at Yuki who he knew hated debates and walked in to the back room. He saw that four men were sitting round a table and spoke. "Hello, my friends. My name is Oukan Saku and this is my companion Yuki and I was wondering if you would mind two more joining in your discussion?" *waiting for Asato to answer his question, Hasshi pours another cup of Tea. After noticing Oukan and his companion enter the room, he pours two more cups and gestures them to sit down, handing them each a cup*
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Post by asatokagesu on Mar 8, 2009 22:03:03 GMT -5
"A fine question," Asato responded. "But I don't necessarily consider the beliefs of the Buddhists or Shintoists as inherently wrong or ridiculous. Instead, they might perhaps be misguided - for they haven't considered the other options that may present themselves. As for my own truths, I think just as the Shinto do, that in everything there is a spirit that shapes the world. I share with the Buddhists their belief in the Four Truths, but I am not completely converted to their notion of constant rebirth, but I do think that only through sacrifice and suffering can one attain and atone sufficiently to arrive at the gates of heaven."
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Post by sparkingac195 on Mar 8, 2009 22:15:33 GMT -5
"A fine question," Asato responded. "But I don't necessarily consider the beliefs of the Buddhists or Shintoists as inherently wrong or ridiculous. Instead, they might perhaps be misguided - for they haven't considered the other options that may present themselves. As for my own truths, I think just as the Shinto do, that in everything there is a spirit that shapes the world. I share with the Buddhists their belief in the Four Truths, but I am not completely converted to their notion of constant rebirth, but I do think that only through sacrifice and suffering can one attain and atone sufficiently to arrive at the gates of heaven." *Hasshi nodded in agreement at what Asato had said. He didn't believe in the kami and always thought that those who did were ignorant fools, but here was this man sitting before him who not only believed in kami, while at the same time being well learned and versed in spiritual matters, even seeing to have an intimate knowledge of Tanaka's beliefs, which always seemed somewhat foreign to Hasshi.* *Deep in thought, Hasshi didn't know what to say to Asato, but wanting to respond out of fear of being impolite, he quickly put together a new question* 'Asato-san, there is a question i have always wanted to ask someone well-versed in knowledge such as yourself: why is it, that despite Dai Ming being the centre of the world, and the teachings of the likes of Lao Tzu and Mengzi being an inspiration for all humanity, these foreigners whose beliefs you seem to have an intimate knowledge of, don't follow them? naturally, it would seem it is because they are uncultured barbarians, but from what insight i have gained from my retainer Tanaka-san and yourself on their faith, i have the feeling this is not quite true, after all without them, teppo would not exist in either this country or Dai Ming. Is it plausable to think there is a Second Dai Ming somewhere past the lands traveled by Sanzang in the Tang Dynasty?'
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Post by scholar on Mar 9, 2009 6:26:04 GMT -5
*Suehiro quietly sat down, listening to their discussion. Taking another sip he thought of what to say, even if the question was not directed at him he felt that he should say something. He took two sips of tea*
"Is not sanzang the title of Xuanzang? I always thought of him more of a myth than of a real man. A legend to be revered as such. After all the only time I have heard of him comes from the novel 'Journey to the West'"
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Post by finchy on Mar 9, 2009 6:38:55 GMT -5
Saku, took a deep breath he could see where this discussion was going. He always relished the chance to put forwards his beliefs but he decided to wait untill addressed. He wanted to see where the others stood first.
He nodded his thanks to the man who had offered him a drink before sitting down on his chair.
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Post by sparkingac195 on Mar 9, 2009 8:31:13 GMT -5
*Suehiro quietly sat down, listening to their discussion. Taking another sip he thought of what to say, even if the question was not directed at him he felt that he should say something. He took two sips of tea* "Is not sanzang the title of Xuanzang? I always thought of him more of a myth than of a real man. A legend to be revered as such. After all the only time I have heard of him comes from the novel 'Journey to the West'" OOC: Sanzang was a real monk who did go to India to fetch scriptures during the Tang Dynasty, he is no myth. Also, considering the conventions of the time, wouldn't the tale of Journey to the West be considered Non-Fiction? *Hasshi was so caught up in his converstaion with Asato, that he was oblivious to what was around him. He eagerly anticipated Asato-san's next answer*
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